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Four Admit Over-Fishing Worth More Than 8Million


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#1 Barry McCrindle

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 04:10 PM

From www.fishnewseu.com

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AT the High Court in Edinburgh today, four pelagic skippers pled guilty to offences of making false declarations regarding over £8 million worth of fish that they landed
The offences, in contravention of sea fishing legislation, relate to a number of illegal landings of mackerel and herring at Peterhead between 2002 and 2005, when the vessel skippers falsely declared the quantity of fish they landed as a means of evading the annual fishing quota allocated to their vessel.

The four accused, their vessels, and the amounts for their undeclared catches are:

• James Duthie, born April 24, 1957- master of the Sunbeam- 56 landings worth £1,936,546.13.

• Ian Buchan, born March 13, 1957- master of the Quantus- 49 landings worth £4,495,568.

• John Macleod, born February 27,1955- master of the Charisma CY88 and the Prowess CY720- 43 landings worth £1,159,761.70.

• Michael Macleod, born November 4 1978, master of the Charisma CY88- 34 landings worth £907,840.50.

Sentence was deferred until March 23, 2012.

The landings were made at a fish factory in Peterhead.

Speaking after the court hearing, Lindsey Miller, Head of the Serious and Organised Crime Division, said:“This prosecution of these individuals follows the conviction of seventeen other individuals and two limited companies which operated fish factories, in 2010 and 2011 for similar offences, and is part of an extensive and complex investigation which is continuing into other fish landings.

“The successful prosecution of these additional accused is a further example of effective joint working between Grampian Police and Northern Constabulary, the Serious and Organised Crime Division of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, and Marine Scotland. We will continue working with police and other agencies to prosecute those individuals or organisations who flout the law for their personal gain.”

Detective Superintendent Gordon Gibson of Grampian Police, who led this investigation, said:"The pleas tendered today are another positive example of the hard work, dedication and partnership approach by all involved in this investigation."

Cephas Ralph, Head of Compliance at Marine Scotland said:”Marine Scotland is determined to secure a sustainable future for the sea fishing industry and the coastal communities they support.  Illegal fishing is a crime committed against the marine environment and the many honest fishermen who abide by the regulations and fish responsibly."

The Crown today commenced confiscation proceedings under the Proceeds of Crime (Scotland) Act 1995 and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 against the skippers.  The Crown lodged prosecutor’s statements in accordance with the Proceeds of Crime Acts, seeking to recover the benefit made by the accused from the above offences. These proceedings will take several months to conclude and any amounts to be confiscated will require to be judicially determined.

I always see both sides of the argument, the one that's wrong and mine.....

#2 thresher

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:53 PM

linnie on the quantus must have used the happy pipe at every landing to gross that much
ky 16 dinna bother writing any more rubbush about tr1  landing as much in black fish value as the pelagics. this artical says it all. some of these skippers are on par with the bankers. with thier greedy antics.these people are in a different league alltogether. and i am fairly sure if the whole tr1 and tr2 fleet went down the tubes tommorrow. not one of them would give a fliying f--uk

#3 caveat emptor

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:20 PM

Confiscate their licences and quotas, use the profits to save the Rangers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#4 restlesswave

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:09 AM

save rangers? ahahaha-the tax man cometh..... now i was never in my life fond of the taxman-but on this occasion, i`m willing to put all my bad feelings aside-just for this one instance-you have to understand ahahaha...
bend it,and if you can`t bend it,break it.

#5 nicky l

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:12 AM

ill say it again thresher, your runnin about on second hand info. from what you glean from the media or hearsay. you havnt a clue. stop pointing fingers. and as for them not giving a f8ck about tr1 or tr2. why should they? its not there business. stick to what you know. which judging by your comments, isn't a lot.

#6 restlesswave

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:16 AM

as i said before-it`s not the pelagic mens fault that thresher hasn`t a tank boat.....
bend it,and if you can`t bend it,break it.

#7 caveat emptor

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:59 AM

View Postrestlesswave, on 07 January 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

save rangers? ahahaha-the tax man cometh..... now i was never in my life fond of the taxman-but on this occasion, i`m willing to put all my bad feelings aside-just for this one instance-you have to understand ahahaha...

When Cain agus Custaim na hEireann finally get round to setting the dogs on Dodgy Desmond it should make for some fun too, carries a fair bit of baggage does Desmond.

#8 thresher

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 10:12 AM

i wonder what the public will make of these headlines. its probably the last thing that the whole uk industry needs right now. am nea saying i am innocent of breaking the rules. but the black fish in tr1 tr2 was only active for a few years. and i watched it all happening. every time we landed. i know what we grossed and have a good idea how the rest of the boats got on. but nobody enjoyed doing it. it was without a doubt the worst period , at the fishing , i have ever seen. i was delighted to see the end of it,
i am not jealous of the tank boats, i never have been. they have allways made a lot of money. we all know that.but going by the numbers in the papers. these skippers in no way regarded landing thousands of tons over quota as pain in pain in the arse that had to be done, just to make sure that your crew got a living wage. and  you could meet your bank repayments the following month,
i would never wish any ill or misfortune on any other fisherman. i have been at the job to long to have childish thoughts as far as that go.s
i have no idea what the final outcome of these court cases will be. but you will all have read in the papers . how they treated the skipper of the arcane,, the cornish hake netters, and the , two fishermen in the coble on the east coat of england,
when they use the proceeds of crime act . there is no telling how much the crown prosocution sevice will ask for, in regards as fines and forfits,.
if i was one of these skippers i wid be crappin it,

#9 nicky l

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:05 AM

so take the prowess there for instance, a boat which i worked on. 43 landings worth 1.1 odd million over quota. works out around 27 grand a landing. going by average price over the 4 years collective your probably talking around 38 ton per landing of mackerel which was not accounted for. which works out at around 18% of black fish per landing. do you think that is an excessive amount? considering mackerel quota was raised by 20% in the last 3 years it virtually wipes out these figures. that coupled with the fact that all over quota landings from the period in question was payed back during the next 4 years( you never heard much about that though did you???) and then these fines on top of that would suggest to me that there has been more than enough punishment handed out.
a lot of people read these figures in the media and get all exited about the big bad swindling pelagic men, destroying the seas with no regard for anybody else. take fuel at 70 pence a litre and take a DAILY average consumption of between 7 and 25 TON depending on the boat. take a net and bag at 120k. set of nets doors at 100 odd grand. wires, sensors and various chandlery at 50 grand and you have the guts of 300 grand going into the water every shot. now if you owned that gear would your heart not be in your mouth everytime you shot? lose that lot and you could go backwards fast. the big figures are all relative to the scale of the fishing. so the pelagic men are no worse than anybody else.
personally im glad that there is no black now. it leads to greater transparency and maybe all these wankers in charge will be a little less sceptical about what the fisherman is telling them with regards to what is on the grounds. just for the record thresher, the dumping of mackerel due to its size is absolutely disgusting and anybody who is involved in that should hang there heads in shame. this is a problem which stems from the pricing structure. eg biggest fetches best. i believe there should be a fixed price over the board regardless of size. the buyers should be forced into this.
there was some more greedy than others but tell me in your line of fishing you havn't came across the same characters?? its the same all over. big numbers small numbers. the principles remain the same

#10 thresher

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:09 PM

fair comment -nicky 1-,,
as regards the high grading.i know for a fact it goes on, i was told to my face by an sff observer, that he has witnessed it happening, he said to me quote..you twin rig lads are a drop in the ocean as regerds discards compared to the palagic boats, this information hsa been kept quiet. , for whatever reason i dont know. i am not saying all our home boats are doing it. but some obviously are.there.s plenty norge,s and danes up there as well. so they are more than likely high grading as well.this year has been really bad. with tons of rotting fish at lots of places.it pollutes the seaded and takes months to decompose,

#11 restlesswave

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 03:03 PM

that was always my point nicky-you spend millions you gross millions you need millions spend in thousands you gross thousands you need thousands. let alone the price of the gear there`s a few of our boats that`s after fitting sonars nudging the 200 000 grand mark-now people might say that`s excessive and they are fishing well with the sonars that are aboard them-but if these fellas can save a week or two`s steaming by having a new sonar it justifies the price-again that`s the numbers your dealing with-the price of a fine boat in my world-black fish is black fish is black fish regardless if it`s the smallest man to the biggest man-the principle remains that it was all landed for gain-no other reason so nobody that ever broke a rule should moralise against the big fellas-after all were all there`s very few that fishes that isn`t in it to make money-and usually the more money the better-it`s not a communist collective we are part off.
bend it,and if you can`t bend it,break it.

#12 Mouton Noir

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 03:51 PM

Oh stop it....you have got me near greetin over the plight of these 'poor' pelagic lads.....all that worry, all that expense. I am surprised the stress of it all doesn't spoil the enjoyment of all the dosh they have in their offshore accounts......

#13 nicky l

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:14 PM

this is obviously over your head mouton noir. you seem to be missing the point. nobody is defending anybody here. merely pointing out the reality of the situation. it wouldnt matter if all the money the pelagic men made had been made without black. they would still be held in contempt by many. i suspect you would be one of them.

#14 Mouton Noir

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:33 PM

Yeah, over my head....that will be right. Who do you think you are like? Do you think your posts are beyond my understanding? If you do I can assure you they are not although your lack of appropriate punctuation sometimes makes them difficult to read. As for contempt for the pelagic fleet, I  afraid you are well off the mark, I have no contempt for them whatsover. What I have contempt for is lying, thieving, cheating criminals who chose to break the law when they had no reason to......

#15 homeward bound

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:38 PM

The bottom line is was it need or greed, if they had to commit these offences to keep their head above water then you could show some sympathy,however if it was just to feather their own nests well they will get what they deserve through the courts, they  all knew what they were doing  at the time with a rigged fish counter etc, its not that many year ago if you got caught poaching salmon on a river you would have got jailed !, the last time there was fines handed out they were paid THERE AND THEN  nobody asked for time to pay,  just glad to get oot the court !! how many folk can do that if their struggling ? ,better left for the courts

#16 nicky l

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 02:13 AM

who do i think i am? well look at my pictures in my gallery and you will see who i am. who are you? dont give me any bullshit about lying thieving, cheating criminals. you can just about count every person who has shot a net in the last twenty years with that sweeping statement. if your that worried about punctuation well maybe your in the wrong profession. providing that is your a fisherman.

#17 Mouton Noir

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 10:27 AM

Well, if I am wrong they will be proven innocent......Oh,wait a minute, they have been found guilty. That makes those who were the subject of my comment criminals does it not ? You are the one who chooses to include all fishermen in the that bracket, apparently in an attempt to defend these men and the actions of all lawbreakers. I stand by my comments regarding those who were caught, tried and convicted.....Finally, I do not quite understand to association between punctuation and being a fisherman. Are you saying that you cannot be a fisherman and understand the use of Capital letters and punctuation?

#18 nicky l

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:38 AM

no, what i am saying is that I would imagine that not many people on here really give a sh*t about punctuation. thats no disrespect, just a matter of fact.
have you ever been involved in any blackfish atrocities? that is, have you ever taken a share of a catch that may not have been accounted for in the proper manner? a wee bit of stoker here or there?

#19 Mouton Noir

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:14 PM

I can honestly say I have not been involved in any blackfish activities or been involved in any over quota activities. Now, whether I may have been caught up in it had I been still fishing I cannot say. I imagine if I had been desperate for a pay or was gonna lose my boat, house etc then I would have considered breaking the law. I would have needed to be prettty desperate though as I am generally law abiding. Having said that I have been done for speeding and I stole some sweeties when I was wee once. I also cannot claim a clean sheet on the stoker front either because I have to admit to flogging the odd box of fish and basket of tails for cash so we could get fags and the odd pint when we were away from home. I suppose that is breaking the law too and I was cheating the tax man but since the stuff was size and within quota at least I was not cheating my fellow fisherman.........Now, if you think that equates to the performance of the Pelagic scam I am forced to disagree. The people convicted had no need to do what they did, they chose to do it. They were getting a big slice of the cake but they wanted more.....pure greed not need.  The general point of defence you make i.e. that we are all lawbreakers and are all as bad doesn't really hold for following that logic my stolen bag of sweeties is a bad as being a drug dealer or being involved in a multi million pound Mackerel scam. I cannot see that. Anyway, lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
You are 100% correct regarding the punctuation

#20 nicky l

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:46 PM

it was greed for some and survival for others. i know that for a fact because i was there. but we will agree to disagree.

#21 thresher

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 02:47 PM

nicky 1
you seem to be trying to justify these landings by running cost of the boats involved.you said fuel at 70p ltr. if i mind right it was round about 36-42p a litre back when the landings were made. so a tank boat burning 15 tons a day would have a fuel bill of aprox £17,520on a 4 day trip. as for cost of gear. you only buy it once. that is unless you lose it every time you shoot away. every boat takes a risk each time they shoot. these boats boats are midwater, so unless you blow the bag off the net. or tow into a peak or high standing wreck in shall water. you are a lot less likely to do damage compared to a bottom trawler, who,s gear needs constant upkeep and repair, so we will take a landing of 500 tons of mackerel at £1000 a ton. x 6 landings= 3 million,
so a £105,000 fuel bill wont make a dent on the expences. and even if they bought new gaer every year it still amounts to nothing compared to the gross

#22 restlesswave

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 03:04 PM

there was more than one of the pelagic boats both in the scottish and irish fleet found themselves way over extended financially for different reasons at the time-i`m not saying them all-and if you go back on my posts i never said there wasn`t greed involved but i said there was greed involved in the whole industry-which there was.
bend it,and if you can`t bend it,break it.

#23 clamcal

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:18 PM

i have followed this thread with somwhat mixed feelings sadness at seeing fisherman against fisherman and amazment and amusment at the amount of law abiding citizens who bear down on these so called " criminals " and owning up to "minor misdemeaners" themselves while they embrace and pontificate over laws that are at best flawed unfair and unjust. had there been a level playing field they would not be criminals as no crime would have been commited. the way i see it if the lawbreakers are criminals then the lawmakers "who seem to be above reproach" are a thousand times worse eg did these so called criminals play god with other peoples money and cause a global financial catastrophe and then reward themselves with multimillion pound bonuses NO did they swindle millions of tax payers money for so called expenses in order to compensate the shortfalls in their already overinflated wages then offer up a couple of their lesser crewmen for prosicution as a token gesture while they sat back and licked what was left of the cream of their lying lips NO the list is endless in fact did they in 1970 sign away our mess of pottage ie our fishing rights to become part of what can only be discribed a rogue state for the so called greater good of our nation again a big NO. the fat cats if they could be bothered were to look at this they would piss themselves laughing we are doing the job for them we are DIVIDED and damn near DEFEATED. we never agree or stick up for each other against a common enemy no two fisheries will ever agree or unite that will be our downfall ive heard this statement so often " why should i get involved it dosnt affect me" well think of this they came for the blacks i done nothing they came for the gypsies i done nothing they came for the jews i still done nothing they came for me but there was nobody left to help me. these men are not criminals they are just fishermen who worked hard and invested wisely to get to where they are today had they been in any other industry they would have been elevated to the house of lords by now. homward bound mentioned fines being paid on the spot just to get out of court in 1978 one of these skippers and his crew/partners was turned down by brittish banks and other financial institutions for funding for their first purser they managed to get funding from a norwegian bank providing they built the boat in norway and the rest as they say is history the brittish government gladly accepted in fact insisted on taking their taxes through the years then throw the book at them fair i think not it saddens me to see the likes of the macleods a fine decent farward looking family being criminalised like this poor sheamus "may god rest him" must be turning in his grave. had i been as wise as i was stupid chances are i too would be standing in that same dock wandering what the hell had happened to the industry that i grew up in. i too seen the madness of landing black fish and back door landings all that acheaved was to drive the prices down why should buyers pay top dollar on the market when they were getting it deliverd to them for half the price but who could blame the skippers doing it the whole thing was soul distroying i mind being on watch at flugga listening to a link call from a german trawler who was towing within a mile of us to his base in bremen requesting to come in early as he had 40 tonnes of coley fillets and 40 tonnes of wet fish aboard at the time we were only allowed 400 boxes of coley a month fair NO dont think it was the pelagic criminals that made that rule either.as for greed well thats the nature of the sucessful beast as a skipper the day you lose greed and drive get to feck out of the wheelhouse you are of no use to your crew or your boat. had these lads failed or gone bankrupt they would be hailed as heroes for trying but they succeded now theres a different matter losers are to be pitied they will never rise over us and can be used as a benchmark to justify our own failings nobody loves winners well not in this game anyway as you were boys

#24 nicky l

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:01 PM

clamcal. a great post and probably a fitting end to this thread.

#25 osp500

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 10:51 PM

Hello nicky .... lot of money these skippers are being fined ... i do hope that all the deckhands will be paying for their ill gotten gains ..... whistle.... whistle

#26 nicky l

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:03 PM

your a bit late on the go Ronnie. no like you to sleep in. they cant take what you dont have so i will be fine. i hope you have all your skeletons well locked up. theres a witch hunt on.

#27 osp500

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 08:17 AM

Based on your defence Nicky i should be allright ... you canna take the breeks aff a bare erse as the sayin goes.....

#28 homeward bound

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:50 AM

View Postosp500, on 08 January 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

Hello nicky .... lot of money these skippers are being fined ... i do hope that all the deckhands will be paying for their ill gotten gains ..... whistle.... whistle
quite sure it will be on the settling sheet  who got what  ,err i dont think so :-X

#29 nicky l

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:04 AM

whats your point HB?

#30 homeward bound

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:57 AM

my point is this money which is being classed as "proceeds of crime " will not have hardly been declared, thus it is is HIGHLY unlikely it was put on a sheet ,!!



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